47. To Have or Not to Have Babies... and Why
“Maybe the reason why I always wanted to have a baby is not why I should have a baby”
Angie always imaged having babies. Kristy is on team no kids. But lately, they’ve both been having different thoughts. In this episode, we explore why we originally wanted/not wanted babies and why we are changing our minds. We also chat about endometriosis, discussing babies when dating, abandonment fears, trust issues, and mom’s guilt tripping us.
Enjoyed this episode? Share with a friend! The best way to support this show is by listening. So thank you.
Got a topic you want us to chat about? Have a question about mental health or adulting as an Asian American? Let us know!
More Episodes Like This
Transcript
HEADS UP: We use AI to help us transcribe so we can spend more time on the podcast. The transcription is not perfect. Please forgive any typos.
Angie: 0:00
When we started the podcast, you really didn't want kids. And I was like, yeah, I want kids. Yeah. I want kids. And now we're both like maybe like kind of more siding on no, but then
Kristy: 0:14
we're more meeting in the
Angie: 0:15
yeah, we're a lot closer. Maybe we're not at the same stage. Exactly. But we're definitely closer to each other on the spectrum.
Kristy: 0:22
So let's, let's talk about that.
Angie: 0:51
Welcome back to another episode of shit. We don't tell mom,
Kristy: 0:54
And today we're gonna be talking about babies specifically. Are we gonna have babies or Are we not gonna have babies?
Angie: 1:01
right. We're not talking about parenthood here because obviously Kristy and I do not have parents. So we have absolutely zero expertise. I mean, we we do not have
Kristy: 1:12
we have,
Angie: 1:12
we have parents. We do not have babies. We are not parents. So we have zero expertise or knowledge in that area. So in terms of babies, you are talking about babies from non parental
Kristy: 1:24
We're gonna discuss our, the non-existent potentially existing babies. Wow. That was, that's not a good sentence at all. But Angie and I are in our early thirties, we have had different, opinions on how we wanted to run the rest of our lives, whether. With babies or sans babies. And now we're revisiting this because you know, life makes you change sometimes and sometimes you have a plan and then you decide to have a different plan.
Angie: 1:59
I think what prompted this thought to me more is the fact that right now I'm going through a diagnosis of endometriosis. obviously. Endometriosis is one of those things, not obviously,
Kristy: 2:11
tell our poop troops, what endo is.
Angie: 2:13
endometriosis or known as endo is basically when you have uterine, like the, the cells that's supposed to line your walls, kind of move out and they go onto your ovaries. So because of that, you get incredibly painful cramps and it can affect, your cycle. And one of the symptoms is that you may have difficulty getting pregnant. Historically. It's been very difficult to diagnose because doctors like, well, you just have a back cramp. It's like, oh, you're complaining too much. So the only way that they could really diagnose in the past was to really go into you. Cut you open extract a little bit of. That cell and then check whether or not that's it. And most people don't actually think whether or not they have endometriosis until they want to get pregnant and they have trouble. So then they go to a fertility doctor, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But more recently it has been basically become a more, topic to be talked about because it's actually quite common. So I've been having extremely terribly painful cramps, especially over the last few months. So I went to get an ultrasound, cetera, et cetera, cetera, because it's one of those things that's really difficult to diagnose. You kind of have to go through a period until they find out whether or not you have it. But one of the side effects of having endometriosis is difficulty having children, but you know, a lot of people within don't do have children. So it's not like a, you definitely cannot. It's just, it makes it more difficult, but it definitely got me thinking about, you know, pregnancy and babies and stuff like that. And that's actually been on my mind in the back of my mind, kind of over the last few years ever since the end of my last relationship, because that was when, you know, my plan was kind of disrupted
Kristy: 4:04
Because I remember like when your last relationship ended And then, and then a chunk of time in the middle for like healing and growth and like grieving and all that stuff. Right. And then afterwards, when you're ready to date again, it felt like you are on a mission. Like part of the reason why you're looking for a partner is like I'm ready to have babies. Like, gimme a baby daddy. I remember you use the term, like your eggs are gonna expire. So you were like very determined to. This sounds like I'm making it sound horrible. I'm making it sound like you're, you're just dating so that you can have a baby. No, but like that was part of your life plans, right? Like you wanted to have a baby in your life. that was always something, that you had envisioned your life to, to be. And then when your last relationship ended, it was like, Ooh, curve ball. okay, now my timeline's a little bit messed up Better to have it when you're younger. And you know, we were approaching 30. So basically what I'm saying is that was the Angie, back in 20 20, when we were first talking about this topic on our show, so where are you at now
Angie: 5:18
Maybe I'll start with what I have come to realize since then, because I, it's hard to describe where I am at now because I don't exactly know where I am at now, except that I am at a, maybe. I think in hindsight, the reason why I really wanted a baby at that time is because I felt really alone in the world and I wanted to have a family. And when I was going to therapy at that time, you know, I had a lot of conversations with my therapist about loneliness and the feeling of alone and abandonment, cuz that was one of my biggest triggers. I related a lot of things back to, I'm gonna be forgotten. I'm gonna be abandoned. That was kind of the core driving factor for a lot of my insecurities and fear. So I think that I had always assumed that once you have a baby, you will no longer feel empty or alone or abandoned because then you have this thing in your life.
Kristy: 6:17
like you're tethered to this other human forever
Angie: 6:20
that's right.
Kristy: 6:21
they're your baby.
Angie: 6:22
I like it for me. It was, it felt like a, I didn't know it at the time, but I was thinking of baby as like a, a form of something to fill that hole, which I obviously, in hindsight, it's like, that's a really unhealthy way to think about having babies.
Kristy: 6:39
not a good reason to have a baby, to, to compensate for your like own insecurities or just like fears
Angie: 6:47
right. But of course, like at the time that was not why I thought it's all unconscious, right? Like at the time I was just like, why I want a family, my eggs are expiring. There were all these very, very logical explanations about why I want to have a baby. I feel lost in life. I've always wanted a family to be a part of, My parents have put me through so much. I feel like I should give them a baby. Sorry, my parents, I have put my parents. I have put my parents through so much. I feel like I should give them a baby cuz they want a grandchild.
Kristy: 7:18
a great child. Thanks for bringing me into the
Angie: 7:23
Yeah. So a lot of the logical thinking, I was like, well it totally makes sense. Why I want to have a baby. There's all these reasons, but it wasn't really, until I started my new relationship that a lot of these fear was coming back to me because I was now emotionally connected to another person, which makes me vulnerable at being abandoned again.
Kristy: 7:47
here.
Angie: 7:47
So that became a focus for my sessions again. And of course over time. I come to realize that, okay. Maybe the reason why I always wanted to have a baby is not why I should have a baby. Like of course it's okay for me to feel that way because a lot of people do, but it's not the reason why I should. So that's why I am now on a maybe because I'm no longer like, okay, I, I need to have a baby. It's more like, okay, let's see if circumstances will come together where I'm having a baby make sense.
Kristy: 8:26
I wanna go back to that part where you mentioned, like, now that you're in a new relationship, you feel less alone because there's another human in your life but you also feel like there's an extra layer of fear because that means your partner could leave you.
Angie: 8:42
Yeah, exactly.
Kristy: 8:44
so how does, how does, like, how does the baby or not having a baby kind of play into that?
Angie: 8:51
That's a good question. I, maybe it was, I don't know if it was related. I think the fear of abandonment came back, when I started a new relationship, because I think that's quite normal. Like a lot of people have that fear when they first started a relationship. Right. Maybe they are related, but I can't think of why right now, but I'm sure in some ways they are related. Cuz I do remember asking him, oh like, do you want kids? Because you know, at our age, when you start dating, you have to hash out those details
Kristy: 9:27
Yeah, we gotta cut to the chase. Make sure like we align we don't got time to play no games.
Angie: 9:34
Yeah. You don't have time to date for a few years and then figure it out. Like if you're both in your thirties, you need to be like, okay, are we on the same page or not? So like I asked them like, do you want babies one day? He's like, or sorry, do you want like, yeah. Do you want to have kids? And he said, yeah, eventually. And I was like, okay, that's a pretty reasonable answer. especially because some people don't think in long term like that. So for me it was, yeah. Maybe in like, in three to five years or something like that, which could be eventually for someone like him.
Kristy: 10:08
mm-hmm yeah.
Angie: 10:10
So I was like, okay, I didn't wanna press, because we had only been together for a few months at that time.
Kristy: 10:16
So it's like, we need to answer all these questions soon, but like also not too,
Angie: 10:23
I don't wanna, it is such a fine line. I was like, Ugh, I don't wanna like pressure him cuz it's not like I want now, but I also need to know that like when
Kristy: 10:35
wanna like also, yeah, you don't wanna freak him out, but then you also was like, you know, I got an agenda here.
Angie: 10:41
yeah, exactly. Like when.
Kristy: 10:45
need to
Angie: 10:45
Like eventually. Okay. But gimme like a year, you know, like, is that gonna be like 20, 25 is gonna be 20, 34? Like, and how
Kristy: 10:56
on my calendar.
Angie: 10:58
I need to plan it out in my head. And that was my approach. And, so it bothered me a lot, even though he did answer the question, I was like, so I told my therapist and yeah, I guess maybe I wasn't asking the right questions, but she says, like, we can't force people to give us an answer if they don't want to, the best that we can do, or the best that I can do is tell him where I'm coming from. Tell him exactly when I want have babies and tell him what's on my mind and see how he reacts to it. And so I did, and he was just like, He's like a silent participant in a lot of these conversations, he's a very good listener, not a great, debater or anything like that. So he was just like, okay. And I was like, what are your thoughts? And he, and what he said was, well, I guess like for me, I don't have the pressure of thinking it like that, like in terms of a timeline. So I've never thought about it in that detail And I was like, okay, that's fair. But then there was still, this nagging came behind me, like, but when, when, and I think that gave me pressure like that, I gave myself pressure. And because of that pressure, I started acting like. out of not like I started acting out of an agenda, like you said, rather than like seeing where the relationship goes. Because again, I was like, well, we don't have time to waste. Even though quote unquote, we were technically on the same page and that we both eventually want children, but I was like, no, I need a fucking agenda. Like, I, I know. Yeah. Like I need like a planner. like
Kristy: 12:38
I need a timeline.
Angie: 12:39
I need a timeline. And that obviously wasn't great for the relationship. It's not a healthy way to approach a relationship whatsoever.
Kristy: 12:47
Did you have a timeline in mind?
Angie: 12:49
I did. I want to have my first kid before I turned 34.
Kristy: 12:56
Did you
Angie: 12:57
I did.
Kristy: 12:59
tell him that? And.
Angie: 13:00
He just like acknowledged what I said, but he didn't say anything at the time because I don't think he had time to process and think about it.
Kristy: 13:08
Especially when he has never given a timeline, the
Angie: 13:14
Yeah, exactly. Like, I, I, I told him, I'm like, I'm not putting you in the spot. I just wanna tell you this. So that's why he didn't really say anything about his thoughts, because I told him, I'm like, I'm not pushing you for an answer. I just wanted you to know what my thoughts are because that's, that's what my therapist suggested. And I was like, okay, that sounds like a fair conversation for him so that I'm not just like, okay, tell me right now. Like, so I'm not dropping a bomb on him, right? Yeah. But that did create some friction because I always had this thought in the back of my mind. Well, like what if he's just wasting my time? Like, oh, this is not gonna work out. He's gonna leave. Like, we're gonna break up and then I'm gonna have to start over again. And it's like a self-fulfilling prophe. So at the time we had been together for around six months and he hurt his back, hurt his back climbing. He jumped down a wrong way and he hurt his back and he couldn't move. So the next day I took him to the hospital, thankfully wasn't as bad. But of course I was like, oh my goodness, so I decided to take care of him. but I couldn't really do that at his place because I still needed to work. So We packed up some of his stuff and he came to mine and I took care of him for a few days. And then we kind of just got comfortable like that so that he spent, started spending a lot of time on my place. it was almost like we were living together except he, all he had at my place were his clothes. so I was like, like, does it make sense for you to just like move in or something? Like, I know it's really soon, but a lot of things have happened really quickly. you know, pandemic relationship, et cetera. And he is like, yeah. Okay. So we decided this around like F surround like February and his move in date was gonna be March. But as the date was coming closer, he started like kind of shutting out. So for me, I was getting triggered like, oh no, this is Like the self-fulfilling prophecy, like it's
Kristy: 15:03
Like he's getting cold feet. He's having second thoughts. He doesn't wanna move in with me. What does that mean for our relationship? What does that mean for, for me?
Angie: 15:11
Yeah. What does that mean for me? What does that mean for my future? I was so focused on myself because I went into that defensive mode again. Right. Like, oh my God, somebody's gonna bend on me. I need to think about myself because I need to protect myself and self and yeah. So we ended up breaking up for a week because I couldn't handle the heartache of imagining going through this cuz I didn't, I couldn't see a way out if he had moved back, he had he okay. Not move back. But he was basically living on mine at that, that point pretty much if he had chosen not to stay, which would mean that he was gonna quote unquote, move back. that it
Kristy: 15:53
like
Angie: 15:53
result in a lot of conflict.
Kristy: 15:56
like, it's a sign. Like he, the whole herding, his back thing was a catalyst to you guys moving in together and then pandemic and all of that. And then you guys moved in together. You guys got really comfortable. He was hanging out a lot at your place. He was practically living there anyways. Right. It's just not officially. And so him going back to his own place is almost a sign of regression. Like either the relationship is falling apart or like, this is a bad sign because we were moving forward. So if he goes back, then we're either moving backwards or we're just falling apart. And neither of those are good things.
Angie: 16:33
That's right. So the regression, which again, relates to, I mean, the reason why I'm going to the story is because it relates to the baby's thing is like there's a destination for a relationship getting married and having babies. That was my thought. And of, of course, in hindsight, I'm like, that was really unhealthy. And like, we had this big fight, which resulted in a breakup, which ended up being just a big fight because we made up at the end of the week, like lit literally one week later and then he's like, you know, this doesn't change anything, anything I'm like, I know this doesn't change anything, but I need to change my perspective.
Kristy: 17:12
Such growth in those seven days?
Angie: 17:15
Something happened in those seven days.
Kristy: 17:17
And you're like, oh shit. Hmm. My perspective was a little bit skewed. I was very focused on me. I need to think about like us. And I also need to think about you too. Like, I need to bring you into this conversation like that. I think that's some growth. If you were able to come to that conclusion in
Angie: 17:34
I think it's kind of similar to what happened when you broke up with your B your ex-boyfriend or quote uncle, and then you flip flopped as well. Remember, because it does give some perspective because I was the one who ended it, even though I didn't want to end it
Kristy: 17:48
mm-hmm
Angie: 17:49
because I was like, I don't know, it was a weird
Kristy: 17:52
Yes, same these we, we gotta call it first and, and and also it feels less well I'm doing air quotes. It, it makes us think it would feel less painful if we only apply logic into coming up with that conclusion, what we think at the time is logic. And so if we were in control, then we have control of how painful it is. Like, it feels a little bit less painful when it's coming from me, rather than like you being dumped. And, that in of itself is also a form of protection. It's protecting your own emotions and But anyways, I digress. That's another, that's another episode topic. Why do we need to have so much control?
Angie: 18:35
that's exactly it. But I do think that relates to the whole baby's thing. At least for me, it did. So where I'm at now is after those seven days after continue seeing my therapist and talking through, my mind of thought and how I thought about this baby's thing. When I came to the conclusion was I want a family. I want to be a part of a family. because that was something that I didn't have at a very formative time in my life. I always felt really lonely.
Kristy: 19:05
Yes, I relate so hard, so hard. Mm
Angie: 19:08
Exactly. But then I also came to the conclusion that you don't need to have babies to have a family. So that was where it was kind of like, okay, these are the driving factors of why I wanna have a baby. As soon as I realized those are the driving factors. I was like, well, that's unhealthy. like, that was being like, okay, well that's fucked up. And, I don't wanna fuck up my children and you don't have to have babies to have a family because you can just be family between the two of you and your friends and stuff like that. So I was like, okay. So I kind of started to relax on that idea. And I even told him, I was like, I don't think I want children anymore.
Kristy: 19:47
when,
Angie: 19:48
um,
Kristy: 19:48
when did you say this to him? Cause in our story, we were talking up until you know, you guys, you guys got back together. So when did you
Angie: 19:55
I can't remember because things happened so quickly because we weren't seeing anybody else, like friends, family. It was just us two
Kristy: 20:06
pandemic relationships?
Angie: 20:08
it felt like several months after we got back together. But in reality it was probably like two months or even one month. I don't know, like, you know what I mean? Like emotionally it felt like a lot, a long time after, but in reality, probably not. So I told him that and he was like, okay, like, he didn't really say anything. He just noded and acknowledged what I said. And then sometime later I told him again, I want have kids.
Kristy: 20:35
Oh my gosh. So now you're flip flopping between the babies.
Angie: 20:38
Yeah. And he's like so confused. He's like, okay, so you really want kids. And then you say you didn't want kids and now you want kids again. He's like, I'm really confused. I was like, I know I'm really confused too. and that's when I was, I realized I was like, okay, let me rephrase this. It's not that I really, really want children. And it's not that I'm really against having children. I just am at this gray area of, I don't know. And then he did this. Oh, mm. Like kind of like acknowledgement. And I agree with you kind of thing. I was like, is that pretty much where you are? He's like, yeah. And I was like, okay, now we're on the same page. So when he said, eventually it was more like a maybe, but maybe he didn't wanna upset me or something, you know?
Kristy: 21:23
He's also been conditioned by the society that we live in. Like that's just the part of the plan in life. Maybe he's just like, yeah. Eventually, but like, he wasn't sure if, if he's sure. No, because he's. Against it, but he's not totally for it. So then he'll just lean into the default status quo, which is like, okay. Yeah. I'll probably eventually have kids because that's what everybody does. Right? Like, so
Angie: 21:52
And he, and he doesn't have, expiring eggs to think about. You and I, and I would say at least a handful of my close friends have been in that gray area for some time, because they had their yes or no decision at some point. And they decided that they're in the gray area, but I do also have friends who are absolute yes. And friends who are an absolute, no. Which at the time was you
Kristy: 22:22
I mean, I'm not that far away from the absolute. No, but so I still wanna say I am team. No,
Angie: 22:32
Okay.
Kristy: 22:32
but I'm. Uh, man,
Angie: 22:36
Uh,
Kristy: 22:37
sometimes I have these trickling thoughts that come in just randomly, you know, how like random thoughts pop in your head. Right. And so sometimes I will have a random thought of be like, what? I wonder what my kid would look like. I wonder would be like to, you know, raise a teenager. I wonder what kind of clothes I will buy them, you know, like small things like that. And sometimes like, it shows up, in my work, whether it's pediatric nutrition, whether it's nutrition for pregnant people, whether it's teaching about food, food, literacy, cooking skills in, in school classrooms, so food and nutrition and kids, you know, that combination shows up in my work sometimes. So I will have a random thought. I'll be like, I wonder how I would teach my kid about food, or I would, I would think of like fun, creative ways to teach my kid, food and like experiencing different senses and playing with food and like enjoying different types of food. And, so it's not like I sit down and I think, oh, do I wanna have a kid or not? And when I do have these conversations with myself, I it's mostly a no, but I would have like random thoughts that pop in my head, whether it be, inspired by work or I see someone on the streets or whatever, or just random shower moments. Right. And they'll come up and I've never really had those thoughts before, but I've been having them more lately. When I say lately, I mean, like in the last, I don't know, year or two ish, maybe longer. And I didn't really wanna admit that because I was so do you know, children for so long. and, and it makes me, you know, it just makes me wonder, and now I'm like, maybe I'm not so 100% against the thought of having kids. And I wonder if like, these thoughts are a sign or if they're just like natural thoughts you have, but it doesn't mean that it's, it's actually what I want.
Angie: 24:42
Hmm.
Kristy: 24:43
Cause who wouldn't be curious, right. About like what your kid might look like, but
Angie: 24:49
Yeah. Or like how, what kind of person they will be and will they have the traits that you value and will you be able to, so for me, it's a lot more high level instead of, I think it's so cute that you thought about like clothes and stuff like that. That's so sweet for me. It's more like, what kind of person are they gonna be? How are they going to approach life? Are they gonna be a kind person? Are they gonna pick up the values that I want them to have? And what are they gonna be like with my husband or my baby daddy? what are they gonna be like with my parents? What are they gonna be like with my friends? Like stuff like that, because you're when you have a baby, you're not just introducing a new life into the world, you're introducing a new person into your existing support system. Like it takes a village or stuff like that. And you know that everyone around you is going to do their part
Kristy: 25:44
it. You're not just bringing a child into the world. You're bringing a child into your world.
Angie: 25:50
That's right. and I know how happy it'll make my parents. So for me, that was kind of where I was coming from. And of course, when during those seven days of the fight slash breakup, I did have that conversation with my mom. And what she said was, even though I mentioned some of those comments to you, I don't want to pressure you. She's like, I do not care if you have kids or not. I just think it would bring you so much joy if you do, because you've brought me joy.
Kristy: 26:27
Ooh oh, oh. That's like mom saying I love you.
Angie: 26:30
yeah. I know. But it was not in those exact words. It was
Kristy: 26:33
Uh, that's pretty dark close, man. That's I, I say that is way higher than her peeling. An orange for you.
Angie: 27:32
Yeah. So when she said that and she said, she also said it would be also such a shame, because what she meant was like, you are so capable that it would be a shame for you not to give another child such a good life like to be taken care of and to be a mentor, like a role model for someone else, because I was such an easy daughter for her to have it'd be a shame because I'm so capable
Kristy: 28:00
Mm-hmm I think she's right. I think, I think your mom's right. I think it would be a shame because you are such a capable person. You are like, I think you would be a great mom is basically what I'm trying to say.
Angie: 28:14
thank you.
Kristy: 28:15
But at the same time, I wonder if I know she says like, I don't wanna pressure you and I don't care if you have kids or not, but to say it would be such a shame is almost kind of like a guilt tripping thing.
Angie: 28:27
Oh, yeah. It's absolutely. Yes. And she, she says, oh no, absolutely. And that's such a, like a thing that my mom does that she like contradicts herself, but she doesn't realize it. So she doesn't realize that by saying that she is giving me pressure, but she's not, she's saying she's not, but because she's comparing it to her social circle. Right. And her social circle is Chinese moms being like, have a kid. Where's my grandchild, have a kid now have a kid now. Whereas my mom is like, no, like she's not gonna say that stuff to me directly. But she says stuff that is maybe guilt tripping a little bit, maybe a little bit like fishing for, you know, an answer kind of stuff like that. So to her, she's not pressuring me directly, but she also doesn't realize some of the comments she make is a little bit, you know, does gimme a little bit of pressure.
Kristy: 29:20
Which is basically part of her identity because she is very liberal compared to a lot of typical Asian moms, but she is still herself, an Asian mom. So she's still gonna, you know, hold some of those typical Asian mom characteristics so like I've told my mom, I tell her all the time, it's almost like I keep pushing that seed deeper and deeper into her brain. that? Now she's just like, she knows I'm not gonna have kids and she's accepted the fact that I'm not gonna have kids. She's never pressured me. She's never like, I wanna be a grandma. Like, what are you gonna give me babies? Like, it's more like my grandma that says those things. and then my mom will like, try to shut her up is hilarious. It's like watching. Us but older it's gross. Anyway. anyways. so like I've, I've always been the one to tell my mom how I feel about the kids thing, but I've actually never asked her how she felt about potentially not having grandchildren. And I know it's not up to her. It's my life. And I get to do what I want with it and it's my body, et cetera. But lately I can't help, but wonder like, does she feel some sadness that she might never be a grandma? And I'm so afraid to approach that topic to her, just thinking about it is, is making me emotional and yeah, she'll sprinkle things in to try to convince me to have a kid, but she's. She knows. I've made my decision. In fact, I, I make her think that I am so team, no kids more than I actually am, but like, I, I do want to know, am I taking something away from her? And like, how does she feel about not having grandchildren, not being able to become a grandma? Like,
Angie: 31:20
Do you think that on some level she feels like it's her fault?
Kristy: 31:24
oh, I've never considered that before. What do you mean.
Angie: 31:29
Like, because you had to be a caretaker at such a young age that you no longer want to take care of another being and that maybe the, adversity you went through as a child has made you. Prone not less like has made you see that childhood isn't always full of rainbows and butter.
Kristy: 31:52
I don't know. I mean, I just haven't thought about it, but I could see her, I could see her come to that conclusion. I know she feels guilty about not being in my life, especially during childhood and I'm sure making assumptions. I'm not sure, but I think to some degree she feels regret for not taking custody of me I think it's, I think it's really complicated because it's like, I don't know how often she thinks about the, what if. but I know she's a very emotional person and she used to live in the past a lot. She has improved drastically in the last year or so. And I'm so proud of her in the progress that she's made with herself, trying to be more present and think about her, think about her instead of everybody else. Cuz she would do a lot of things that she would do a lot of things for other people, but never herself. And then she would just live in the past, you know? So I don't know. And maybe that's part of why I'm scared to approach this topic with her of like what it would be like for you. If you weren't going to be a grandma. I don't know if she wants to be one or like, I don't know. I, I just don't. I just don't know what her thoughts are on this topic, besides that she respects my decisions, but subtly sprinkles in reasons why I should have kids without knowing, or maybe she knows,
Angie: 33:26
I think our moms have a lot more in common than we think,
Kristy: 33:30
that's why they're hanging out. They're like, this is Ky stuff. Okay. I thought, I thought it'd be like, you know, a couple times a year, maybe like be, you know, friendly acquaintances, like, oh, our daughters hang out. Our daughters are friends and they do podcast. They are okay. Okay. Poop. Jus let's give you a side, little update. Our moms have been hanging out every single.
Angie: 33:55
you know, we can't
Kristy: 33:55
Every week, every, okay. Angie and I, we do podcasting on Sundays. Right? That's why our episodes drop on Sundays. We record on Sundays. So we like hang out. Okay. Pretty much every Sunday. Well, we used to hang out way more when I was in Vancouver, but now our moms are also hanging out. Every Sundays is
Angie: 34:18
Yep. That's when the hiking group meets, but then also on Canada day, they hung out. there was another, mom there as well. The three of them went to downtown together and had like a girl's day
Kristy: 34:32
nah, oh. like, like, I would think you would have these girl Hangouts with people that you're like very close to, you know, that you like enjoy hanging out with. And I didn't know that they were at that level already. Okay.
Angie: 34:49
They have so much in common. From what my mom has told me, it sounds like all three of them are kind of the independent really on their own. It's not like their husbands are with them. Their boyfriends are with them. All three of them have daughters. One daughter, two of them are right here. I think the other woman is the one whose daughter is in Switzerland doing or, or Sweden doing her masters. And she doesn't wanna come back to Vancouver. And
Kristy: 35:18
So also also very strong, capable, independent daughters.
Angie: 35:24
that's right. Which they should realize takes after them.
Kristy: 35:28
I hope so. Do they realize that? I hope they do. I hope they, I hope they like, you know, celebrate and like do little, the three of them just like cheers, champagne, fruit, C. Champ champagne flutes, and be like, look us, go
Angie: 35:45
Yeah. I don't know if they think that, but it would be very cute, but they, yeah, the three of them have so much in common
Kristy: 35:51
anyways. Where, how do we get here? Oh, telling our moms about,
Angie: 35:57
yeah. And, and the pressure and whether or not we know, like, I know that if I don't have grandchild, I think my mom has grappled with that, that she might not have a grandchild. I think that's why she treats Evie, like her grandchild, like, you know, giving. So for those who don't know yet, Evie is my dog.
Kristy: 36:17
It's basically a child in our generation. Like
Angie: 36:20
yeah, basically. That's.
Kristy: 36:22
pets. Are the new children like, come on, get, get with, oh my gosh. What was. Trend, thanks with the trend.
Angie: 36:31
like my mom gave her a red pocket when she came home and then my mom gave her another red pocket on her birthday.
Kristy: 36:40
That's so cute. That's so cute. Okay. If maybe when I have a cat, then I won't feel so. So I don't know weird about this whole situation, because I think same thing, like my mom has come to terms that I'm probably not gonna have a kid, so therefore she's probably not gonna become a grandma. I I'm gonna guess that there's some sort of a sadness as part of that. And you know, but she's come to terms with it and she's accepted it and she respects it now. I'm, I'm hoping, you know, once I have my little baby, my little cat baby, that, that she could, she could treat it. as she
Angie: 37:26
I think, I think she would. I think she would. And, and, one other thing that has also made me go, okay, maybe I am back more on the side of yes. Because seeing how involved my boyfriend is with Evie and seeing how involved my mom is with Evie and seeing how supportive my boyfriend's mom is with Evie makes me think that, of course they'll be the same. If I have a baby,
Kristy: 37:57
would a grandchild, it's like a child test for a
Angie: 37:59
a child test. Absolutely. And my, my friends who now have a baby, they started off with a dog as well. And they will always say that the dog is their first child. It's their first son and their, their human son is their second son. and we actually went for, my friend's birthday dinner, and I guess him and my boyfriend started talking and he messaged me a couple days later and go, do you guys want kids? And I was like, whoa, what, what are like, just like question. I was like, yeah, I don't know. I think eventually he's like,, he really liked the way my boyfriend talked about Evie. He could really see how much he cares and like my friend who was at like my friend, he thought that my boyfriend would make a great dad. That's how obvious it was to him and Evie wasn't even there. It was just through conversation.
Kristy: 38:52
Your partner's just like exuding dad vibes.
Angie: 38:55
He is definitely exuding dad vibes. He already has so much of that and it just makes me so happy to feel that. My best friend have asked me like, oh, like, do you think things are better now? Or like, are things tougher with Evie? I was like, at first it was tough in terms of sleeping schedule, but I've never been more in love with him because he is so good. He's so thoughtful and so considerate. And it's a side of him that I wouldn't have seen before. So it is really sweet and they're really sweet together. And I told my friend, I said, if we do have kids, I'm pretty sure it would be up to me. So. I can kind of see a future with a kid now because I see how much love and support they
Kristy: 39:39
sweet. Hmm. Yeah. and who knows, like, you know, I might change my mind depending on my life circumstances, depending on when I get a kitty. Right. Maybe I'll be like, this is totally enough. Or I'll I might feel like, oh my gosh, maybe I want more. Right. It's interesting that when you imagine potentially having a kid it's it's with you, it's with your partner, it's involving your whole family. it's bringing, yeah, like I said earlier, it's, it's bringing a baby into your world. When I imagined having a, a kid, I was always alone.
Angie: 40:18
would get. Oh.
Kristy: 40:18
Like, I didn't even think about my mom, you know, helping out or how she might treat my, yeah. It's not to say, like, I don't think she would. I just, it, it just didn't naturally come into the picture and, and it's not like, how do I put this? if I were to bring a child into the world, I would like to do that with a partner. But when I I close my eyes and I picture it, even though I want there to be a partner. And sometimes in that, you know, imagination there is, but it's always just some like shadowed figure, just kind of like looming in the background, not really super involved, you know, like they're there, but like not really there, you know what I'm saying? Maybe it's just because like, I don't know who the baby daddy's gonna be and therefore it's so cryptic or maybe subconsciously, I feel like I need to do this all on my own. Even, even if there was a person there, I would still feel like majority of the responsibility and majority of how my life will change is gonna be on me and maybe subconsciously. That's why I don't want to have children because it seems really exhausting and tiring and actually lonely.
Angie: 41:33
No. If you were here right now, I would give you a hug.
Kristy: 41:37
virtual hugs.
Angie: 41:39
Yeah. Virtual hugs. think that's because you had to handle so much on your own as a child. That you have become you know, that you can always rely on yourself, but you know that you can't
Kristy: 41:51
Yes. What you just said there? Absolutely. Because it's like the, the person that you can confidently trust in this entire world is you, I'm not saying I have trust issues. I don't think. But I can't confidently say I have full trust in another. Okay. That, that does sound
Angie: 42:12
rely on other people.
Kristy: 42:16
wow. What a, what a revelation.
Angie: 42:20
you're you're also giving major Katniss vibes right now. Because she had to take care of her mom and her sister. And she like, you know, she had resented her mom a lot. and then she knows that she can't trust anybody except herself, which is why she was so, distrusting of Peeta but then eventually she came to realize that it's always better to do it with someone
Kristy: 42:43
And she didn't wanna have kids
Angie: 42:45
that's right.
Kristy: 42:46
until Peeta came along
Angie: 42:48
There you go.
Kristy: 42:49
her mind and felt like, so.
Angie: 42:52
It's not that it's. Yeah. It's not that you need to have a Peeta to have child, but I think if somebody came into your life and showed you that they can be relied upon that they are there for you then maybe.
Kristy: 43:06
Yeah. And it like what it took. Okay. Spoilers alert for hunger games. It took her, I think like 15 years before she even decided to actually have a kid with Peeta afterwards. I think, I think a lot of people love, the Kaus character, but there is a big part of me that relates to her because of her upbringing. It's not like I lived in district 13, but.
Angie: 43:31
12
Kristy: 43:32
Oh dear. Oh, shame on me. I've been in very Harry Potter mode lately. Okay. I must say I just came back from the curse child. So, you know, like also not cannon. Okay. Don't no hate everybody. Like I know it's not Canon, but it, the, the play is pretty good. Okay. So I, yes. I relate to Katniss and yeah, like, I don't feel like I can fully rely on another human being right now besides me. So maybe the conclusion is I need a Peeta to walk into my life and then spend 15 years to convince me
Angie: 44:13
and you know, that's, that's totally understandable. You can't work on trust issues alone. You can only work on trust issues with someone else. Right. Because you have to develop that trust. And for me too, like, it took me a while to trust that my boyfriend's not just in the get up and leave because he wants to. Took me a lot to accept that he wants to be here. And there's a reason why he's here. And if something does happen where he no longer wants to be here, then it is what it is. I can't live day to day thinking that he's gonna leave. Yeah. So, I mean, I was reading last night as I was following asleep, he rolled over and put his head on my shoulder and I was like, Ugh, this has never happened ever. Yeah.
Kristy: 44:57
up the episode.
Angie: 44:58
Yeah. I guess we went all over the place a little bit, but I think that's very representative of how we feel about wanting babies.
Kristy: 45:06
So it's basically exactly what we should have done. and then I would say
Angie: 45:09
right. I guess in summary, it's like one, don't think about babies as a solution to your problems. It took me a while to realize that, but I'm so glad I realized that before I actually had a baby
Kristy: 45:22
third
Angie: 45:23
two, it takes not just you to raise a baby. It literally takes a village as they say. And I know that there are single parents out there who do a lot of it on their own and like mad respect, but I can see why somebody would be hesitant to have a child if they don't know for exact guarantee that they will receive additional support, especially in this economy.
Kristy: 45:49
is Really think about why is it that you choose to have a child or not have a child, like really ask yourself that question and, and maybe ask yourself multiple times. Because if someone asks me why I don't wanna have a kid, I can list off lots of logical reasons. But if I'm really questioning myself, like, is it, this is it because I have trust issues? Is it because I have fear of being alone Maybe it's am I having this? Because my family wants me to have this. Is it because my partner wants me to have this, like, are, are you having a child? Because everybody else around, you want you to have a child, but do you want a child?
Angie: 46:29
Yeah. And I think those are very understandable and valid reasons if somebody does choose to have a child, but I think it sets up a good foundation before going into parenthood to know why you are having a child as well. On top of the other reasons why, you know, you should or shouldn't, but why you want to
Kristy: 46:50
okay. That's it? That, that's all we got
Angie: 46:53
that's all we got because that's all we know.
Kristy: 46:56
and neither of us are fully a hundred percent. Yes or no. And maybe that's a, maybe that's a good thing because we're accepting of either or
Angie: 47:06
Yep.
Kristy: 47:07
okay. Piece. Aww.
Angie: 47:44
Okay. So side note, this is a cute story Evie has now equated the word grandma with my mom. Like she knows who grandma is,
Kristy: 47:52
That is so cute.
Angie: 47:54
isn't it?
Kristy: 47:55
That is so cute.
Angie: 47:57
I realized it a while ago, because one time, I was saying like, oh, oh, like grandma's grandma's house, whatever this weekend, grandma. And then she sprinted to the door and I was like, cuz usually like, well I'll be like Eddie. Grandma's here, grandma's here. And then my mom will come in. So she has now come to understand, grandma is my mom and it's so cute. So I sent my mom videos before where I say grandma and every like looks over at the door. Kind of thing. And I, I was like, and then one time I said a word that was really similar to grandma, but it wasn't, I think I said, shout a grammar at Nick
Kristy: 48:34
Ah,
Angie: 48:35
and then EV bolted as well. And I was like, I'm so it's not, but either way, she knows that word now. And it's so cute. And I sent videos to my mom and she obviously brags about it to my dad. And last time when my parents came over to have, spot PRS, there was one moment where, so my, my dad never really knew what to do with Evie. Like when he first met her, she, he was just like, okay. Yeah, like that's a dog. Right. Well,
Kristy: 49:06
just like, imagine him doing that. Yeah.
Angie: 49:11
the thing is Evie. Yeah. And Evie's such a family though, though. She'll like wag her tail, go up to my dad and try to like give him kisses and play with him, but he wouldn't know what to do. So he would just kind of laugh awkwardly. And then there was one time where we saw him petting Evie and instead petting Evie with his hand, he pet her with his elbow. I don't know. Maybe he was, I think maybe he was scared of being bitten cuz you know, when they grew up, dogs were pretty like unpredictable. Yeah. They're not like trained like they are nowadays. but when he came over, I could tell he was jealous that he Evie didn't know what grandpa means. And then, and then he, Evie was sitting, looking at him and my dad was like, you are Evie. I am grandpa. And I was like, oh my God, like it was this, it was such a sweet moment, like, because, and Evie obviously has no idea what he's talking about. So she just like, has her mouth open, like looking at him. yeah,
Kristy: 50:12
Oh, that's Hmm.
Angie: 50:12
such a cute moment.
Kristy: 50:14
I love that. I love that story.
Angie: 50:16
You are Evie. I am grandpa.
