51. The Joy and Grief of Adult Friendships
“I’m gonna hedge my bets if I have a lot of friends that are within the close circle. If a few of them left, then I’d be fine. As long as I keep filling this first ring, then it’ll never be empty. And I think that was my protection mechanism.”
Kristy and Angie sit down to talk about the different types of adult friendships during Kristy's road trip across Canada. Analogies are made, lyrics are quoted, and tears are (almost) shed.
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Transcript
HEADS UP: We use AI to help us transcribe so we can spend more time on the podcast. The transcription is not perfect. Please forgive any typos.
Kristy: 0:00
And now it's a Oh, okay. So like fifth times the charm, man. Now I got a pee. All this excitement now.
Angie: 0:36
What are we talking about today? I think we're gonna talk about adult friendships. Adult friendships. I guess there's two different ways to see it. One is like friendships that you make when you've become an adult. So you know, after school basically. Cuz a lot of our younger childhood friends are from school or maybe part-time jobs or something like that. But adult adulthood, I would say it's like, I don't know, maybe like 25 and beyond,
Kristy: 1:04
That's what I was thinking. I was like
Angie: 1:06
Oh really?
Kristy: 1:07
beyond 25.
Angie: 1:09
I thought that was just an arbitrary number, but apparently we agree so
Kristy: 1:12
No, I thought, well, I mean it's like the midway point of your twenties, right? So when you think of, well, when you think of, I don't know what you think of when I think of my twenties. I think like, you know, young twenties and then there's like late twenties. There's a bit of a difference.
Angie: 1:27
Yes.
Kristy: 1:28
In terms of where you're at in your perspective in life and stage of life, right? So your young twenties, there's a high chance that you may still be in school or you're just not, you may not have leveled up in adulthood in a, to a certain level, right? So, I don't know. Your exposure to to people may still be
Angie: 1:52
Your exposure to the reality of life, and this is obviously like the median 25 year old.
Kristy: 1:57
We're generalizing
Angie: 1:59
We are absolutely generalizing
Kristy: 2:01
We're basing it off of our own experience.
Angie: 2:04
also, like the research says that a
Kristy: 2:08
Oh, now you're pulling in the research. I.
Angie: 2:12
Well, because now I'm thinking like, our brains become fully developed when we're around the age of 26. so yeah, making friends after you're 25 or just maintaining friendships while you're an adult. I think those are two pretty different things that overlap and kind of go under the umbrella of adult friendships.
Kristy: 2:35
All right. Let's, let's, let's talk about both.
Angie: 2:37
I think we need to get more fundamental than that. I think we need to define a friend,
Kristy: 2:44
Okay.
Angie: 2:45
define friend. Because I feel like the degree of how close someone is to someone else might vary. Like, the degree of closeness for what? Categorize somebody as a friend varies from person to person.
Kristy: 3:07
Okay, that's fair.
Angie: 3:08
And I feel like, at least for when I was younger, if I knew somebody and we weren't like enemies in blood, then they were a friend. I thought everybody was a friend, cuz why not? And it was only until I got older that was like, Oh no, not everybody's a friend. Just cuz they're friendly with you or you are friendly with them, doesn't mean that they're a friend.
Kristy: 3:32
mm Okay. So how would you define a friend?
Angie: 3:37
I think this is just a tough topic because I don't know. Friendship, friendship, friendship, friendship, friendship.
Kristy: 3:48
Like if I see, if a stranger on the street, you know, is friendly and we're chatting, I wouldn't consider that person a friend yet. So, So then what does constitute a friend? How do you level up from friend, like to become a friend, and what is the hierarchy of these relationship statuses? You know, like how I'm envisioning this is like you got your BFF and that's like the top of the pyramid, and then you have your friend, and then you have your, I don't know, coworkers and then slash colleagues, and then you have like acquaintances and then you just have like people that you know who are a decent human being. And then there's people that you're just like, I would prefer not to hang out with. you know, like that's how I'm envisioning the, the ladder right now.
Angie: 4:39
So you know what's funny is you are envisioning a ladder and I'm envisioning a circle and.
Kristy: 4:46
Cool. I like that so much better cuz I really got disgusted with myself and I'm like, Ew, why are we like getting all hierarchal about this? Like, we gotta break the ladder.
Angie: 4:56
well, it's still kinda hierarchical, but instead of a hierarchy that's up and down, it's inside out. So I feel like if you think of a circle or a circular shape of some sort, and you're in the center of it, cuz that's your world,
Kristy: 5:11
Oh,
Angie: 5:12
Yeah. Like we are the center of our own little circle, cuz
Kristy: 5:17
Rings, you're thinking about like rings that expand outwards. Okay. When you said circle, Okay, this is how I imagined it. Okay. Love that word on a podcast. And we're trying to explain things visually. So how I imagined a circle was like you have everybody's on the same ring.
Angie: 5:36
You mean like those pictures where somebody, where there's a photo of the earth and everybody's holding hands
Kristy: 5:44
That's exactly, and I'm like, Wow, that's so beautiful. Angie, please tell me more of how, how
Angie: 5:50
Absolutely
Kristy: 5:51
hold hands with.
Angie: 5:54
Yeah. No, the world does not like that. Cartoons and whatever stuff have made us think that, Oh, everybody hold hands around the entire world, whatever. No, absolutely not. Whereas for the, I'm thinking of rings and maybe even like a cone, you know, But, but I don't like to think, I don't want there to be an up and down structure is more like closeness. So obviously within the first ring you have people like your family, if you're close to them. Your friends, like people who you would confide in if something was bothering you.
Kristy: 6:30
Mm-hmm.
Angie: 6:30
Like I feel like the true definition of a friendship. Oh wow. I just said I didn't know, but now I'm saying that maybe I do know. maybe it's something to do with the fact that you can share both misery and joy with.
Kristy: 6:44
Okay. I like that as a like defining feature or one of its defining features of friendship.
Angie: 6:51
friendships. These friendships are like the ones you know, that if something bad happens or if you fucked up that you can have an honest conversation and they'll accept like, Hey, you're my friend, but you're also flawed. Like nobody's perfect kind of thing. and within those
Kristy: 7:07
wait, hold on. So it's having the other person call out your shit. That's
Angie: 7:12
Yeah. Well either
Kristy: 7:14
me feeling comfortable in telling you when I'm feeling shitty,
Angie: 7:19
No, that too, Like everything like you, like when you're feeling shitty about, so yeah, it's reciprocal. You tell them you're feeling shitty about something else. They can talk to you about it. They can also confront you if needed be like, you know what I mean? Like, there's boundaries, obviously, but then there you don't need to put on like fake decorum,
Kristy: 7:36
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Angie: 7:37
So maybe the next ring is like people that you like spending time with or you really like them or you have common interest, so you'll share joy with. Like some type of a joy with them, but you might not confide in them. You might not have those more difficult conversations. You might not have discussion about politics or anything like that unless that's one of your hobbies and that's what you're sharing about. but it, it, it kind of comes down to like those are the people that you reserve either common interest or something to share joy.
Kristy: 8:16
Like you would not say things that might disturb the peace or disturb that joy,
Angie: 8:22
Correct.
Kristy: 8:23
whether it be politics or religion or whatever it is that you find that you might think could disturb that joy that you have with this other person. So you would only talk about like happy, fun things or like do happy, fun things with them.
Angie: 8:37
That's right. And then of course then beyond that there's even more another ring like colleagues that you're like, you, you work with them, but you, it doesn't really go beyond that or like, Relatives in the same manner. Like you'll see them at reunions, but it's not like you would talk to them outside of those situations. So I feel
Kristy: 8:57
level.
Angie: 8:58
yeah, it's very surface level and then like strangers, whatever, right? Like, or like people you've met once, acquainted, stuff like that. And I feel like between each ring is a barrier of vulnerability,
Kristy: 9:10
Look at you. Look at you go It's like you have like a whole theory constructed about adult friendships and you're only, you know, unearthing this theory. It's like innate in you and you didn't even realize it. And now as we're talking about it, it's all coming out.
Angie: 9:28
Yeah, it, that's exactly like, I, I was like, wow, I didn't realize I had such a good analogy, but as I'm talking, it's like coming to my head cuz you know, like, I think in very abstract. So sometimes it's hard for me to like relay exactly what I'm thinking of or what my mind is doing. But this essentially, yeah, there's a wall of vulnerability. So even this image that I'm thinking of where it originally started as a circle and then it became rings, and now it's rings for 3D
Kristy: 10:00
Yes, there's like membranes between these rings and you gotta like cross this membrane barrier, but you gotta have something to help you cross it over. You don't just cross over. You need transport proteins to get like,
Angie: 10:13
Oh my god, I was just thinking mitochondria cuz you know, like that photo of mitochondria where you see like the walls and stuff like that and it's the powerhouse of the cell, you know, that great meme and stuff like that. Yes, I was exactly thinking. yeah. So yeah, so many things to carry through that membrane and like some of us have much thicker walls than other people
Kristy: 10:35
Mm-hmm.
Angie: 10:36
and. I feel like I used to have a very thin wall, so it was very easy for people to come in and out of this, of these circles because I was very open. I, I, I never, I was always, what is that word? maybe sometimes oversharing. And then as I've gotten older, I realize. Not everybody needs to know everything, so, So for me it was like my main membranes were a bit thin, so now I'm starting to thicken them up to a healthy width.
Kristy: 11:21
I really wanna get into this like membrane thickness with you, but I'm gonna park it for one second. Just remind me to come back to this. I, you mentioned that it's easy for people to come in and out, like through the membranes and cross, you know, is this a bidirectional. Membrane or is this a uni? So once you cross over, it's actually harder to go backwards? Or is it just as easy to go backwards? It's just as easy for them to, I don't know, downgrade themselves in their friendship ring. Or is it, once you've crossed over, it actually takes more effort to downgrade.
Angie: 11:58
Hmm. From my own experience, it's relatively easy to cross. Closer to the middle. It's also pretty easy to cross back into the
Kristy: 12:11
Okay, so it's a bidirectional
Angie: 12:13
yeah. But once that's once you've used up your entry and exit punch card, it's then much harder, I feel like.
Kristy: 12:27
Okay, so there's like a certain amount of times where you can have easy entry and exits, but once you've used up those passes, then it'll be more difficult. Once they basically, you, they've, you've lost trust in them then to a certain point. Like you've give them certain amount of chances and then you've lost trust. Then you, they revoke their passes are revoked and then it's like, Well, good luck.
Angie: 12:56
Yeah. And it could
Kristy: 12:57
getting past my membrane bitch Yeah. Either. Yeah, yeah,
Angie: 13:01
Yeah. Or they're like, I don't want this pass anymore. P I wanna refund. Right? Like, it could go either way. But yeah, that's essentially my, My theory
Kristy: 13:09
What, what I find really interesting. You say that your membranes used to be thin, and now as you gain wisdom and you become older and you learn more about yourself and life, you are thickening your walls. I find that I'm going the opposite direction. I feel like my walls used to be really thick for all the different levels and, and usually if you're just in one, you're kind of there and it's really hard to cross over either side. However, now I'm learning to let go of those things and, I wonder, maybe I do overshare and I think that is something I need to be more mindful of. And. For permission. If I can share. I think that's something that I'm trying to practice a lot, but when I am given that permission, then I do feel like I try to practice more vulnerability and authenticity, even with strangers, for example. So it's interesting that like the way you explained how your membranes have changed over time. My membranes have also changed, but they've gone the opposite direction, so that's very intriguing
Angie: 14:30
I think so too, cuz I think when I was listing my example, I was also going to say like, of course there are also people out there who have very thick membranes and maybe they're working on thining them because, I don't know, maybe there's, maybe the medium is the healthy one, right? So. Do you think there was a turning point for when your membrane started to thin? I just, I'm laughing because if anybody starts soliciting at like this point, they're like, What the fuck are they talking?
Kristy: 15:02
I like membranes. We're sticking with that. It's, it's been committed, I think, starting this podcast. Being vulnerable on the internet, knowing that there's gonna be all those people that we've talked about, like from best friends, all the way down to strangers are going to be listening to us. And regardless of who the audience is, we are practicing vulnerability. Every time we hit record, every time we're saying something that's on our mind, every time we are verbalizing our thoughts and emotions and feelings and opinions. Knowing that there's gonna be judgment out there, but we do it biweekly every Sunday, new episodes, and, and we do it with guests that come onto our show. And majority of the time we don't really know our guests. We don't have an established friendship with the guests that come onto our show, but, We get vulnerable anyways, and they tell us their stories. They tell us their challenges and their struggles and also their, their wins and their joys. and I think since starting our podcast together, that has opened me up and allowed me to be comfortable with the uncomfortable. and really respect being vulnerable, respecting other people when they're being vulnerable, and also just respecting vulnerability in of itself. And that makes me more comfortable in being vulner. Holy shit count. The times that I had said the word vulnerable in the last 30 seconds, but it, it has made me feel more comfortable to. Share things that might be difficult regardless of where you are in the ring or ladder
Angie: 17:01
So it's that. So is it that the practice of being vulnerable that allowed you to thin your membrane,
Kristy: 17:13
Yes. Cause we're getting more com. Was gonna say we're getting more comfortable, and then I like stutter or trying to say that. So clearly not as comfortable as we think, but because we're doing it more and more, we're practicing it more and more. And then I'm also integrating that into my daily life. Like I'm not just doing this on this show. I, I, I try to do this on social media. I try to do this when I'm talking to a friend. I try to do this when I'm talking to a stranger on the ttc, you know, like I. Because I respect the act of being vulnerable, and I respect and appreciate it a lot, and I feel very grateful and honored when other people are being vulnerable with me, that I would also like to do that same act as well. So the more you practice, the more you do it. Yeah. Or the more you practice, the more you do it, the more you practice it, the more kind of comfortable you, you get with it. And then, so therefore, it's not just reserved for certain people in my life. I try to do that with all sorts of people in my life, which in turn thins down my membranes for everybody.
Angie: 18:24
right. And then you learn that it's okay to be vulnerable, so more people are able to move closer to you because of that.
Kristy: 18:33
Yeah. And even if it's not just to me, but maybe move closer to other people in their lives so that they can practice vulnerability. Not necessarily like just with me, but like hopefully they can do that with other people so that they can also feel it's okay to share uncomfortable things and not just focus on. Preserving or cultivating joy with this person, like it's okay to not always be joyful.
Angie: 19:04
right? Yeah. I totally relate to, especially what you said, that last few words, like it's okay to not always be joyful. That is, that's a big one. And I know we talked about it in the episode with Shevin as well, that, 10 outta 10 is not a base, five outta 10 is a base or baseline. Yeah. I think for me, the membranes started to thicken because I realized that. I was oversharing as a method of combating the feeling of loneliness.
Kristy: 19:43
Got it. So coming from a very different angle.
Angie: 19:45
Yeah, I was just gonna say, I know we have a lot of complimentary like experiences and stuff like that, but this is just another one of those examples where it's like, Whoa,
Kristy: 19:55
Which is so great because yeah, we need to come from different perspectives, right?
Angie: 19:59
That's right. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like this is literally the two different sides of it. Yours is, you had a very thick, you know, membrane. You were very careful with what you shared because you didn't want people to get too close because you didn't know what, it would be like if, if they did, it was that kind of fear of being too vulnerable.
Kristy: 20:21
Mm-hmm. Yep. I always felt like if I overshare too much, that that information could one day be used against me in some way. So it was like a, all like a protective thing that if I get too close with someone or, or share too much about my life, then. You never know. In my brain, I'm like, people can change. They can be very friendly one day and then the next day they're like gonna stab your back.
Angie: 20:49
Step. Step.
Kristy: 20:51
That sounded really bleak, but that's what I, that's what I would think. So it takes a lot for you to climb to, you know, become, like a very close friend or, you know, a, a BFF or whatever, however you wanna label it. But it takes a lot for, you get to get to that inner circle. Because I feel like everybody could be a threat. And I also, it's like I also don't wanna be heartbroken and not just in a romantic way. Like you can, I feel like you can be heartbroken from, from platonic friendships or from familial relationships, right? And I don't want to invest too much of myself as a protective mechanism. So therefore my Membranes. I was gonna say mucus. And I'm like, that's not the word. Thick mucus. No. And that's why my membranes were so thick, because I had trust issues. I, I was overprotecting myself. and I, yeah, I didn't want to give people leverage that could potentially one day be used against.
Angie: 22:03
Thanks for sharing that. That's very vulnerable.
Kristy: 22:08
So I'm not that person anymore,
Angie: 22:10
No,
Kristy: 22:10
but I totally interrupted your story.
Angie: 22:13
No, no. this is it. It goes both ways and I think it. It over the, over the past couple years as I've gotten to know you. it's kind of not, I don't know what the word is, but it's kind of like, Oh, that's what I thought Christie's experience would be like. So it's like, Oh, I, I, I was right. Not in the sense like, ha ha, I was right. It's nice to know that, like what I perceived. as what your whole thing is, is what you perceive it to be too. It makes me feel like, okay, maybe I do know her
Kristy: 22:50
Yeah.
Angie: 22:51
well. And, and to be honest, over the two years, of course we've gotten to know each other even more. Yeah. And I think you know me well too, and I think the reason why. Okay, so back to your point about how you were saying that you, it was a, it was a mechanism of protection, protecting yourself. I think I was doing the same, which is just funny. It was just, it's interesting to see that we were both protecting ourselves, but our approaches were very different.
Kristy: 23:23
Yeah. Like our end goal was the same.
Angie: 23:25
mm-hmm.
Kristy: 23:26
But the way we did it was com, like literally 180.
Angie: 23:33
because for me it was like, Okay, well I'm gonna hedge my bets if I have a lot of friends that are within the circle, in the close circle. If a few of them left, then I'd be fine. Like it's okay. As long as I keep filling this first ring with people, then it'll never be. I think that was my protection mechanism. I would say that most of that happened during my university years. Not sure exactly what triggered it. Maybe like the end of my very first relationship ever kind of maybe triggered some abandonment issues that I had hadn't ever really processed until the last couple years. Right? So, cuz I do remember that it was in university that I cycled through a lot of close friends that I'm no
Kristy: 24:21
do you mean by cycle?
Angie: 24:23
Like if I hit it off really well with somebody, we'll become really close friends and we'll do everything together. We'll see each other all the time. And then something happens like a, like an obstacle in the friendship comes and, but because the friendship came so easily, it was also dropped easily. And it wasn't just on my end. It was both end. So there was, because less time was invested into it, that when it did hit a rock of some sort in the friendship, the ship was very fragile and just broke.
Kristy: 24:58
And now in these friendships, was it more just cultivating joy, like you were saying earlier, like just doing all these joyful things and like avoiding things that could disturb, disturb, disturb, or disrupt that joy? I was thinking both of those terms at the same time.
Angie: 25:15
Nice.
Kristy: 25:15
okay, so then that makes sense because then whenever there's challenges, you've never even had conversations about challenging times. So if. was any sort of tumultuous waters in your friendship, then you don't know how to handle it.
Angie: 25:29
That's right.
Kristy: 25:31
discussed about anything quote unquote negative, even
Angie: 25:36
So it was always like, Oh yeah, we lost touch. We're like, we, we no longer are in touch. We're like, Oh, something happened and one person's mad at the other person. We're just gonna pretend like we're not friends anymore. Like
Kristy: 25:47
then just like never gets roofs resolved, you
Angie: 25:49
it never gets resolved. Yeah, so for me that was like a big coping mechanism at that time. And I guess I never really realized, how I might have hurt those people until like the last few years.
Kristy: 26:06
also hurt you too. It's reciprocal,
Angie: 26:08
no, it is definitely
Kristy: 26:09
all the blame, don't carry all the responsibility,
Angie: 26:13
No, definitely. yeah, I, I know it's mutual, but I think what for me was, I was just always kind of in denial. About it. I was just like, Yeah, no, I didn't hurt them. They didn't hurt me. Just like Yolo life, whatever we move on. But I think really it comes down to like, okay, well these were people that you had obviously shared some emotional connection with and you had fun together. You hung out together. Something happened and either like you both didn't have the tool for that kind of, Yeah, like mending the ship, Like ship, ship work,
Kristy: 26:50
Keep it up. The analogies just keep coming. Everybody like it is what? It's
Angie: 26:55
is what it is. And like, so a lot of times you just end up, Yeah. End up wrecking the friendship and it just kind of sinks. and. Yeah, that's, that's essentially it. So, so my membrane, I thicken over the time because I realized like, Hey, I don't need to do that. I don't need to be so driven to make friends like left and right. I can just focus on maintaining the friendships that I do have, and that'll be enough.
Kristy: 27:35
so we mentioned that. Two types of adult friendships. One is making new friends as an adult and we define that as arbitrarily as 25 and up. And then also maintaining friendships as an adult. So now that we have a better understanding of both of our, I don't know,
Angie: 27:55
Styles
Kristy: 27:56
Yeah, I guess styles or how how it
Angie: 27:59
align our
Kristy: 28:00
how it has evolved, how, like how we cultivate friendships have evolved. Where are you at now? Like how are you putting this into practice, into making new friends as an adult? Because again, I feel like that's, that's harder of the two.
Angie: 28:22
I think one of the things that I do know is the advice you gave me a while back and. and you're probably like, What advice? Yes.
Kristy: 28:31
Yeah, exactly. See,
Angie: 28:32
did I say? Yeah, It was when I told you, Oh, oops. It was when I told you I was having some like, friendship difficulties and maybe, a couple of people were taking on a lot of the emotional burden of, of what was burdening me. And you said that it needs to be like a wider net, you know, like, don't focus don. Don't go to one person or two person, or three, two person. Don't go to one or two or three people for all problems. you need to kind of like spread that out so your friends don't get, don't burn out. So now I'm doing the same but with joy. So I, I realize that if I find joy something, it's not something I have to share with all my close friends. Like, I like if it's a great, like if it's like a top grade meme, then I'll like send it to like, you know, everybody. But if it's a good meme, then I'll send it to who I think would appreciate it. so like, obviously that's like a very, quick example of what I mean, But
Kristy: 29:35
hey, meme sharing, meme sharing is important in terms of friendship maintenance too. So
Angie: 29:39
exactly.
Kristy: 29:41
we're crossing into friendship, maintenance territory. But I think, you know, it's, it's little things like that that do maintain good relationships and strong relationships. And I like that you're kind of, being more selective in what and who you shared these memes with, because then I feel like whenever I get something from you, It's like you're targeting me. Like you're like, you send that specifically to me. And so that makes me feel special because now I know, oh, Angie thought of me when she saw this talk and that makes me feel good. And I think that in of itself, even though I don't, I don't tell you until like just now that I feel good. Oh, thank you for thinking of me. Like I don't ever say that to you on Instagram, but that's what I feel when I receive something from you and. When I feel that way, it strengthens our relationship and our bond. Whereas I feel like if you were to just mass share it, then it's not as targeted, then I don't feel as special. It's like business. You gotta niche that shit down. You gotta talk to the people that actually care. Right.
Angie: 30:47
That's exactly why I used memes as an example, is that you, because you put more thought into sharing that joy, like you put more thought into who you want to share that joy with. And because of that thought, is strengths the bond. So, and I'm trying to do that with like different aspects of my life.
Kristy: 31:05
So then going back, how is this like playing out in terms of making new. I keep pushing on this because I'm trying to just like first stay organized and two, I find it really hard to, to make new friends and I think this is something that like I want to learn more about and be more comfortable with making new friends, I suppose, because, I see that in my friend circle. A lot of my friends are people in my life that. Hold very dearly and love very much are people that, that have been in my life for a really long time. So now I'm all about the maintenance. Right. Like, but making new friends is, is scary and challenging.
Angie: 31:54
Well, I think you just said exactly. The main point of why it's scary and challenging is you have these long term friends that you hold dear to, so other people do too. So for you to try to penetrate that well-established ring
Kristy: 32:10
Let me through the membrane.
Angie: 32:11
It's of course gonna be harder. And it's, and it's like, it's gonna be harder, and it's daunting because you're like, Well, what do I have to offer that that person's friends don't already offer? Not that we actually go into a thinking like that, but I think it's very much like subconscious, like, well, like when you're young, you're like, Okay, we need friends. Like you need friends. Because otherwise life is gonna be boring as fuck because you're 13 and you're mind's all over the place. Or you're six and all you wanna do is roll around the mud and play on the playground, and you just need friends to do that. But when you're adult, you're kind of like, Established in a certain routine. You have your, like, you know what your hobbies are, you know what you want to do, and you know what you don't want to do. So because it's more selective that way, it's harder to make friends that way. And that's why it's daunting. Like I, I don't even know why I would wanna make new friends right now.
Kristy: 33:08
I'm gonna answer my own question now of how to make friends as an adult. And to a personal example of mine, even though I was just like, How do I make friends? I dunno how to make new friends. And now I'm like, Well, here's an example of how I made new friends.
Angie: 33:25
Okay, let's hear it. Let's hear it.
Kristy: 33:26
I joined choir in 2019. That was when I had left my, Yeah, I mean, I guess it's just something like I don't really think about until I think about it. And that was a time when I had left my job, so that network is now less accessible for me. And I had planned on just like traveling a whole bunch. But in the meantime, I wanted to pursue. Something that I haven't pursued in my life for a while, which was being in a choir. So in school it's easy to join clubs, it's easy to do sports, it's easy to be in a choir because you just sign up for this shit and then you're like in a room full of these people who want to do the same thing. But as an adult, you don't really think about that shit anymore, right? You don't think about clubs or your extracurriculars or not, maybe not as often as we did back in school. There's actually like an active thought. Or cons, conscious decision that you have to make to be like, Hey, I actually really miss being a part of a choir, being a part of a group where we just get together and sing. Perform. So now I gotta find that again and put that back in my life. So I joined a choir in the summer of 2019 and now I'm in this room full of people so scared shitless cuz I'm like, Oh my God, they already know each other and I'm just like this new kid and like, how do I break through their barriers and their membranes? But you know, as with anything that's new, that all takes time. But eventually I learned that, holy shit, I would've never met these people because they're, none of them are in my field of work. And they're not all like in my age group unless we really expand the age group. But if we think about the conventional age group, not everybody is in that similar age group. And you know, it's really cool that we got together because we love to make music and we love to sing, and we have that commonality and I. Now I'm friends with these people, you know? So I think hobbies is a good way to go to make friends as an adult, should you want to make new friends as an adult. And I think that's a choice. Like it sounds like, Angie, how you describe it, you're like, maybe I don't even wanna make new friends. Like I'm happy with the folks that I've got and I'm just gonna focus on maintaining this friendship and focus on, you know, being more,
Angie: 35:48
Be more attentive.
Kristy: 35:49
Yes. I don't know,
Angie: 35:53
Be trying to guess what you were trying to say. More thoughtful. More grounded, intentional. Ooh, that's a good one.
Kristy: 36:06
Took a while, but hey,
Angie: 36:08
we got there. Yeah, I, I guess it is okay to think like that actually. You just said like, Oh, you are, you don't even know why you would want your new friend. You don't even know why you would want new friends, or you're happy maintaining the ones you have. And I was like, Oh, yeah, I guess that is okay. I guess it's not a big deal that I'm like, not making new friends, Like why should it be? Yeah. And, and it's great that you are making new friends and you say you're not good at it, but I think you're doing a good job.
Kristy: 36:36
Okay, so I say I'm not good at it because I think about my experience in Toronto. So I love, love living in Toronto. but one of the things that come up when I have conversations with people about my experience in Toronto is like, Oh, you must have made a lot of new friends, or even before I left Toronto, they'll be like, Oh, it's gonna be great. You're gonna make a bunch of new friends. You're like super outgoing and you. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I feel like I did not make a lot of new friends in Toronto, so now I've already left Toronto. And when people bring that like just not like bring it up as in like a conversation topic, but it comes up in a sentence within the conversation like, Oh, Toronto I'm sure was so great because blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you probably made a lot of new friends. I'm just like nodding along like, hm. Yes, but then no. I think why I'm hanging onto this like, Oh, Christy didn't make a lot of friends in Toronto, is that I feel like I feel like I've let. Down people's expectation of what I should have accomplished in Toronto, which is the expectation of like, Oh, Christy most likely made a lot of new friends because she's X, Y, Z, you know? And I'm like, Oh. But then I didn't, Am I letting people down because I didn't meet an expectation that others have of me.
Angie: 38:08
Hmm. And when you think of people who, are you imagining that these peop, the people that you're letting down, are they in your first ring or are they in your second ring or are they in their third ring?
Kristy: 38:23
I'm glad you asked that because I feel like people in my first ring. I don't know what they think because they don't even ask about, you know, am are you making friends? Or they don't make an assumption of whether or not I am making friends. Like, that's not even part of
Angie: 38:42
Or they're like, You better not make any new friends
Kristy: 38:47
Yeah, so maybe the people who had those expectations or when that comes up in conversation, maybe they weren't even part of the first circle. Maybe they're like circle ring number two or three. I don't know. I don't know. I really have to like think about this cuz this just came up. Now I'm just making these connections now.
Angie: 39:09
I mean, I didn't have any expectations. I mean, one of my expectations was that you were gonna stay in Toronto, but it's not an expectation like I expected you to. That's just kind of what, like, I was like, Oh, maybe she'll stay in Toronto. Like, it's just like, Oh, maybe. Well, what happen if then, Oh, I'll go visit her. I can stay with her. Like, these are my thoughts. Right. I think maybe you, your friends in your first circle, don't ask because they. Care. They just want you to be
Kristy: 39:34
Yeah. Yeah. They don't care. Like it's, it's not,
Angie: 39:38
The thing that I care the most was like, you actually making the decision to go to Toronto. Cause I'm like, Oh my gosh, she's gonna have a great time. Like, not like a hundred percent of the time, you're not gonna be a 10 outta 10 every day. But I think it'll be, for me it was like, oh my God, it's gonna be such a good experience for her to just like be on her own for a while.
Kristy: 39:55
Yeah. I think everyone in my first circle had the same thoughts as you. Just like very genuinely excited that I'm gonna have this new life experience and, knowing that it's not just gonna be joy, but nonetheless it's gonna be a life experience and it's gonna be great. You're happy for the other person that they're going to be experiencing something great. And greatness doesn't always mean like joy, right? It just means it's large. Yeah. Something I wanted to point out. Friendships can fade and that's okay. Earlier, Angie, you were talking about how back in the day, friends they came in quickly and they can also leave very quickly, and that's because we didn't have the tools or even the capacity to acknowledge. How to repair a friendship or how to talk about challenging things or how to be uncomfortable with someone in an effort to build a stronger relationship or just like whatever. Just let it fade, right? And then forget about it. But I do wanna say that sometimes friendships do fade, not for the lack of effort, but because they came in in a moment in your life when they were needed and you were needed in theirs and. Your paths crossed, but it's also okay to let them go as well when it's time to let people go, and it's not about them doing something wrong to you or you doing something wrong to them. It just means that your time together has ended and that's okay too.
Angie: 41:33
Mm. That's very beautifully put. And definitely as you were saying that a bunch of people flushed in my brain, so yeah.
Kristy: 41:42
Oh dang.
Angie: 41:43
Yeah, that's very beautiful. I haven't really put it into perspective like that before, like people say that. About relationships, before friendships too should be like that because it is, it is an important part of life. And whether you have one friend or many friends, like you're, it's still an emotional investment. And if they leave, what? In whatever manner. That they leave your life, there will be some grieving and it's okay to just let them go
Kristy: 42:30
And just cherish that good times and those memories of the times that you have had together
Angie: 42:35
as we go.
Kristy: 42:37
Oh no. Oh my God. I used to ball ball the fuck out of my eyeballs. Like my eyeballs will lit. I feel like they're gonna roll off of my face from that song all the
Angie: 42:48
Aw
Kristy: 42:49
I need to put that shit back on my Spotify playlist. In fact, I need to do that like immediately after our recording. Okay.
Angie: 42:57
Okay.
Kristy: 42:57
brilliant. It's probably super cheesy now that I listen to it again if I, you know, as a 31 year old adult woman, but I might actually bomb my eyes out.
Angie: 43:08
I
Kristy: 43:08
it's a grieving song.
Angie: 43:10
it's a grieving song.
Kristy: 43:12
Yeah. That's how I had interpreted when I was 12 years old in grade seven.
Angie: 43:17
Hmm. Interesting.
Kristy: 43:18
How did you feel about that song?
Angie: 43:19
I don't really have that big of an attachment to it.
Kristy: 43:22
And that's okay too.
Angie: 43:25
Like it's, I just remember they played it a lot and people were like, Oh my God. Like, oh, I'm so sad. Like I we're gonna go to different high schools and I was obviously jaded. I'm just like, Yo, people leave. Okay. People die, so suck it up. that was probably 12 year old Angie's, perspective. she, she, she was, she was a bit bitter. She was very jaded, so she was a very jaded little girl. So it's, it's
Kristy: 43:53
I honestly think that song just like summed up what I was trying to say, that people come and go and we just need to remember the, the relationship that we had.
Angie: 44:03
Yeah, I mean, one of the, one of the lyrics, for the song is like where we're gonna be when we turn 25. So that is a great callback for the beginning of this episode where we said adult friendships is beyond the age of 25. So
Kristy: 44:20
So it's not just us generalizing
Angie: 44:23
Ladies and gentlemen, we did it. We have come around full circle and it was completely unplanned. And so we talked all night about the rest of our lives where we're gonna be. When we turned 25, that's what grade seven Christie would've been thinking about, where. Grace seven Christie and her friends are going to be when they're 25. Oh my gosh. She's gonna cry. Oh my God. Christie's gonna cry. So much feels, so much feels from this episode. Who knew? But then again, we say that about every single episode.
Kristy: 45:02
But that's the fun about these. You know, recording an episode because you kind of don't know where you're gonna end up at the end of it.
Angie: 45:13
that's right. Kind of like life.
Kristy: 45:16
Oh my God,
Angie: 45:17
Oh my god. I'm sorry. I had to plug that in there.
Kristy: 46:13
We didn't really touch on friendship maintenance.
Angie: 46:18
because we, we both said, I don't know, I'm still working on it.
Kristy: 46:21
Oh yeah, We're still working on friendship maintenance. Sometimes if a friendship dissolves for whatever reason, that can, that's okay as well. You sometimes you just need to let people go,
Angie: 46:35
exactly. And this episode was us starting a conversation about something that was not uncomfortable but unfamiliar. We, like you said, we haven't really thought about this before. We kind of start, We started to realize some certain things as we spoke about these experiences, so it was kind of like a discovery conversation, you know, for us. As well. So cuz sometimes in some of our episodes we come in and we know exactly what we wanna talk about because we are so, well practiced in that topic. By well practiced, I mean, we've just talked a lot about it, already outside of the podcast, but this topic is like, it's not really that talked about. It's not, it's not like it's a taboo topic. It's not. Things we've talked about, like menstruation and masturbation and religion and, and whatever else. You know, it's, it's not like some of the topics we've mentioned before where it's uncomfortable to talk about this one's uncomfortable in a different sense. Like it's so universal. but we don't really talk about it in this perspective. We just kind of try to always put a positive spin on friendships. but sometimes it's okay to grieve it or just let it go and just realize that it did matter and that you don't need to pretend like it didn't to. To absolve yourself of any guilt or anything like that.
Kristy: 48:07
That was so well said.
Angie: 48:08
Was it?
Kristy: 48:09
Yeah, I, I think we're just gonna fucking end the episode there because like, let's end on a high note And that's it for our episode about adult friendships and, how to make new friends and how to maintain
Angie: 48:20
Or just how to have a conversation about those how to have a conversation about how to make friends and how to maintain friends. Yeah. So we hope you enjoy the episode.
Kristy: 48:31
And poop poops. Maybe now it's like find some people in your number one ring and talk about adult friendships, cuz it's something we don't talk about very often. Have
Angie: 48:44
Let them, yeah. Let them know how much you care.
Kristy: 48:47
and send some like targeted memes,
Angie: 48:50
Yeah. Okay. Thanks for listening.
Kristy: 48:52
By.
Angie: 48:53
Bye.
Kristy: 49:23
It's weird that we only have a one hour time zone difference right now.
Angie: 49:26
Yeah.
Kristy: 49:27
We've spent the last year being three hours apart.
Angie: 49:30
Sometimes five years apart. I'm five years apart,
Kristy: 49:32
What I'm like,
Angie: 49:36
apart oh God.
